Lightly edited for readability while preserving the speaker’s meaning and substantive statements.
All right, good morning everyone. We want to welcome our students to Fire and Gray School of Ministry. This morning we are in our second semester and this is our leadership block, block number six. And today we're going to address the controversial topic of women in ministry. Women in ministerial leadership is that permissible? Women teaching and preaching, prophesying in church, is that permissible? The reason we have to address this, of course, is there's a couple of passages that sound like it's forbidding that. But we have other passages that, of course, show the opposite of that. So whenever we have what appears to be a contradiction or just terms that are situations that seem to be completely opposite, that's always a sign that either we're going to have to dig deeper into the original languages. We have to dig deeper maybe into context or the culture or the historical issues there. But today we're going to resolve this issue because there's a lot of misinformation, misinterpretation, bad hermeneutics, and all kinds of stuff pertaining to women being in the ministry, particularly in leadership and preaching, teaching, operating, and the gifts of the Holy Spirit in church. So let's address this today. Again, this is women in ministry. And so we're going to start today here with this. I want everybody to write this down or screenshot this. I want everybody to memorize this. This is so, so very important. Of course, we covered hermeneutics in this class a few weeks ago, the laws of biblical interpretation. I think I gave you six laws of biblical interpretation. Of course, this is one of them, comparing scripture with scripture. But I just thought that this statement was very, very good. And I have to give credit where credit is due. Brother Kenneth E. Hagan many, many years ago, back I think back in the 70s or so, he wrote a book called The Woman Question. Very, very well done. But this is a direct quote from him in this book, but it is so true. And of course, he was quoting another well-known theologian of his day, quoting this. But anyway, says here, every scripture or every scripture passage, you could say,
but every scripture must be interpreted in the light of what other scripture says on the same subject. It must harmonize with all scripture. There are no contradictions in scripture. Okay, that's something we need to get a hold of. There are no contradictions. God does not contradict himself. Now, sometimes it does appear that he says, do something here. But then over here, he says, do the opposite. Well, again, what is that? Sometimes it's context, you know, sometimes it's, it's proper to use the bathroom in the bathroom, not in the sanctuary. You know, that's, I could tell you use the bathroom and you could say, well, see, that means I can use the bathroom anywhere. No, context. Don't use the bathroom in the sanctuary. Use the bathroom in the bathroom. Right. And that's what happens in scripture a lot. We need to, we always have to make sure we understand the context of where something is. But I want to put that back up again. I just want to drill this home this morning. Every scripture or every scriptural passage must be interpreted in the light of what other scriptures say on the same subject must harmonize with all other scripture. Whenever a person, pastor, preacher, teacher, Christian, doesn't matter. Anybody that tries to take a passage and say it applies across the board when there's other passages that are talking about it and may have different little nuances, then, you know, you're being dishonest or you're just that ignorant. I don't know which one it may be, but you just, every time somebody does that, they, they take one passage. They don't consider the rest of the passages that talk about the same subject. They always come out in error. And when you get in error, you hurt people because misunderstandings, misinterpretations, wrong doctrine hurt people. In particular, a lot of women get hurt over this subject because there's a lot of prejudice. There's a lot of doctrines of men, traditions of men, and just like I said, bad interpretation, bad understandings. And so in the process, a lot of women get hurt. Some, some that have been called to the ministry by God have been discouraged from even trying, have walked away. And, and thus the body of Christ has been hurt and people that they would have, you know, edified and strengthened and built up and equipped or, or brought to know Jesus as Savior, you know, that's been hurt. So we don't want to hurt people, but of course we don't want to violate scripture. So we need to understand how it works. All right. So let's, let's continue on. I want to just review a little bit real quickly, of course, from the hermeneutics class a few weeks
ago. I'm not going to read all of this, but the laws of law two of biblical hermeneutics or biblical interpretation. The second crucial law of biblical hermeneutics is that passages, Bible passages must be interpreted historically. Interpreting a passage historically means that we must seek to understand the culture, background, and situation that promoted the text. So that's very important. We must understand the culture, the background, the history. So that's one of the laws that must be interpreted historically, culturally. And then also there were law number three of biblical hermeneutics. We're supposed to interpret a passage, Bible passage grammatically. This requires one to follow the rules of grammar and recognize the nuances of Hebrew and Greek. So very important. We're going to be doing these things today when we study this. Law four, the fourth law of biblical hermeneutics is that scriptures must be interpreted in context. Context is everything, everything, everything, okay? And again, understanding God will not contradict Himself. So if there seems to be a contradiction, an apparent contradiction or conflict, then it's something we don't understand, not something that God did wrong in His holy inspired scriptures. Law five of biblical hermeneutics that we covered was the fifth law of biblical hermeneutics. That scripture is always the best interpreter of scripture or comparing scripture with scripture. So let's get to that this morning in this context. All right, so the question, you know, can women be in the ministry? Can they be in leadership? Can they preach, teach, prophesy? We're going to get to the verses that seem to appear to say that they can't, but let's just look at this first here because this is Acts chapter two verse 16 through 21. This is on the day of Pentecost, and let me just say this too in context of this. This was in the first few verses in the Acts chapter two. In the day of Pentecost, there was 120 people in the upper room, men and women, and when the Holy Spirit came upon them and they were all baptized in the Holy Ghost and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance, that was women. Women were included there in the church service speaking in tongues out loud. So in the beginning of the church, women were speaking in church. Right? So just remember that one as we progress through this. Obviously, God didn't have a problem with women speaking in tongues in the church assembly. Remember the church is just where two
or three are gathered together in the name of Jesus, right? That's considered a church. It doesn't matter what kind of building you're in. It doesn't matter if you're outdoors. If the body of Christ, a group of people gathered together in the name of Jesus, that's considered church. All right? Assembling together. But he goes on here and this is a prophecy from the book of Joel concerning the last days. Peter quoted this on the day of Pentecost, you know, a little while after they received the baptism and the fullness of the Holy Spirit. And he said this here, but this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel, and it shall come to pass in the last day, saith God, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh. So that means men and women. And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy. Your daughters shall prophesy. That is so very important to get a hold of this. Your daughters shall prophesy speak by inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Now I'm going to show you in a second. The gift of prophecy, it says, is very clear, is for the edification, the building up, the strengthening of the church. God's not going to have women prophesy, you know, as hermits in the desert somewhere. The gift of prophecy is for the edification, the building up, the strengthening, the exhortation, the encouraging, the correction even of the church, which contains, guess what? The church contains men and women. So this right here, he says, I will pour out, God said, I will pour out my spirit on all flesh. Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams. And then he says it again, and all my servants and all my handmaidens, that's women, females, or as we call them here, femaleis, right, dudettes, all right, all my servants and all my handmaidens, I will pour out in those days of my spirit, and they shall prophesy. And he goes on to say, and I will show wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath, blood and fire and vapor of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood before the great and notable day of the Lord come. There's come to pass, and whosoever shall call in the name of the Lord shall be saved. So he is talking about not just in that time of the first century, but he goes on to talk about the days when the sun will be darkened, going all the way to the end to the second coming of Jesus. Your sons and your daughters will prophesy, your handmaidens, femaleis, dudettes, too. All right, so let's keep going in this. Let's see if it will. Okay, here's Acts 21, 7 through 11 here.
Speaking of Philip the evangelist, having four daughters, let's read this. And when we had, this is Luke. Luke was with Paul, and I guess at this time was with Paul and Silas in their travels. But he says, and when we had finished our course from Tyree, we came to Ptolemais and saluted the brethren and abode with them one day. And the next day, we that were of Paul's company departed and came unto Caesarea. And we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven and abode with him. And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy. Wow, four daughters, Philip the evangelist, one of the first deacons and then later becomes an evangelist and takes the gospel to the Sumerians, has four daughters which prophesy. So they prophesy by themselves out in the desert as hermit somewhere that no one will hear or benefit from it. No. Let's look at the scriptures, what the scriptures say about the gift of prophecy here. Okay, 1 Corinthians 14, 1 through 6. Let's read this. Follow after charity and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. Now I wonder, you think the Holy Spirit through Paul is speaking just to men here? No. We just read. This is for sons and daughters, men and women. So he goes on to say, he says, For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God. For no man understandeth him, howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. And let's understand another principle here. In this passage when he says, For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue, just because he uses he does not mean women won't speak in tongues. It's just a general term. Okay. That's another way things get misinterpreted. Oh, see, he says he, so only women can do that. I mean, only men can do that, not women. Oh, come on now. Snap out of it. Are he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God. For no man understandeth him, howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. But he that prophesy speaketh unto men to edification, exhortation, and comfort. Now remember, again, he does not mean it's only for men because we just saw that daughters were prophesied. Philip the evangelist had four daughters that prophesied. But he tells you, he goes on to tell you what this is for. Just he that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifies himself, but he that prophesy edified the church, the gift of prophecy, the inspiration to speak the word of God. The Holy Ghost inspiration, inspired speaking, is for men and women. And it is for the edification, the building up, the strengthening, the equipping, the encouraging, the exhortation, the comforting
for the church. There's no such thing as the gift of prophecy for you alone in the desert. No, it's to edify the church. And in verse five here, he says, I would that you all speak with tongues, but rather that you prophesy. Now wait a minute, I want you all to speak in tongues, but rather I wish that you, if you really wanted to put this in grammatical context, he's saying, I would that you all speak with tongues, but rather that everyone what prophesied. He's talking about everyone. So he's talking about men and women. I would, I want all of you to speak in tongues, but I'd rather all of you prophesy. He goes on to say, for greater is he that prophesied than he that speaketh with tongues, except he may interpret that the church may receive edifying. So he's saying here, tongues and interpretation is equivalent to prophecy, but it's for the church to receive edifying the gifts. I wish you all would prophesy though, because that is going to be edifying to the church. Now, brethren, if I come into you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you except I speak to you either by revelation or by knowledge or by prophesying or by doctrine. So he's saying here that the gift of prophecy, speaking, God's word is to edify the church. So God says he had, he would have in the last days, he will pour out his spirit on all flesh. Your sons and your daughters will prophesy, your handmaidens, my handmaidens will prophesy. And therefore it has to be if prophesy is for given to the given to people manifested by the Holy Spirit through people, it is for the edification of the church. Now let's keep going. I know some are going to argue, we're not in a church service. Well, let's see. I don't like whining. All right. First Corinthians, we're going to go on in First Corinthians 14, because we're going to keep it in context, because one of the passages that seem to say that women should keep silent in church happens to be in this same chapter, talking about the gifts of the Holy Spirit, tongues and interpretation of tongues and the gift of prophecy operating in the church. And he was regulating and giving instruction of how that was to be in the church service. And he makes this statement. Remember, he said, I would that you all spoke with tongues. Then he makes this statement, verse 26, very key. He says, How is it then, brother, when you come together, every one of you have a song, a doctrine, a tongue, a revelation, an interpretation, let all things be done in edifying. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. When you come together, when the church comes together, local church comes together, when they're not men and women in the local church, as he says, let every one of you have something, what a song,
a doctrine. Oh, that's teaching a tongue, gift of tongues, revelation and interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. If any man speaking an unknown tongue, let it be by two or at the most by three. And that by course, let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church and let him speak to himself and to God. Let the prophet speak two or three. Let the other judge, if anything, be revealed to another that sitteth by. Let the first hold his peace. Verse 31. For you may all prophesy. All? Does it say just men? No. Right? For you may all prophesy one by one that all may learn and all may be comforted. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace as in all churches of the saints. Now, do we think for one second, when God says you may all prophesy, and we found out that sons and daughters will prophesy, that Philip the evangelist had four daughters that prophesy, that we find out that prophecy, the gift of prophecies for the edification of the church, do we think Paul would contradict himself in the next verses by saying, no, no, no, no, no, your daughters, your handmaidens, your women cannot speak in church. Is that what he's talking about? Well, let's look at it. He goes on to verse 34 right after this, so it continues. So this chapter continues. Let your women keep silence in the churches, for it is not permitted unto them to speak, but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also sayeth the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home, for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. Now, I'm not going to read any more of this because I want to really focus on this. First of all, that sounds pretty clear. Women aren't supposed to speak, but then we just saw it, but we saw women are going to prophesy, daughters are going to prophesy, right? So what is he talking about here? It's very important that we understand we got to go to the grammar. Remember, we're going to do this with correct hermeneutics, correct Bible interpretation. So we're going to look at the grammar. We're going to look at the words used in the Greek, the original language. And we're going to look at also the culture and history of what was going on at the time. And once we do that, we will be able to put this in its proper context. There won't be a conflict. All right. First of all, this word right here, the word for it says women, right, is gunay. All right. And we just saw the word women, which is let women keep silence
in the church, right? The word women is gunay. All right. Spelled in transliterated G, Y, N, E, but gunay. And the definition of it in the Strong's Greek dictionary is a woman, especially a wife, wife, woman. Now, why does it say that? Because if you notice up there, the King James translates Strong's, this word G, 1135 in the following manner. Women is translated women 129 times and wife 92 times. Now, why is that? You look up in the New Testament, everywhere you see the word wife or wives, guess what the word is? Gunay. Same word. Whenever you see the word women, guess what the word is or woman? Gunay. There is no different word in Greek to denote a wife or a woman. Just a woman, like an unmarried woman. There's no difference. So how do we know when it's talking about wives versus talking about women? Just women in general. Context. Okay. That's how we know. Context. So whenever you see the word woman or women, it could be translated wives or not wives, but you have to look at it in its context. Very important. So this, because see, I took this one right here from, from Ephesians 5, 22, and it says wives obey your husbands. Well, do all women have husbands? No. But it's going to be the same word. So that's why it says a woman of any age, whether a virgin, a married, or a widow, a wife, a betrothed woman. They're saying it can be any of these. You just have to determine it by context. For instance, in English, we have to determine things by context. We can say, you know, I love my wife and I can say I love my dog. Well, I, you know, by the context, I hope we understand we mean something differently or our wives are going to get really upset, right? So in context, we, we understand that that word love has different, a different connotation. Same word with this word. Now let's, let's go a little further here. So here's the verse in 1 Corinthians 14. Let your women keep silence. And if you notice down there, women, what is the word? Right? Gunet. Just so that you see it. So Ephesians 5 22 wives be in subjection or be in, you know, submit to your own husbands. Obey your husbands. Gunet. Women keep silence in the church.
Gunet. Could it be possible that in 1 Corinthians 14, he's talking wives. He's talking about wives and husbands. Absolutely. Let's look at this. 1 Corinthians 14 34 and 35. Let your women keep silence in the churches for is not permitted them to speak, but they are commanded to be under obedience as also sayeth the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. So first of all, this passage cannot be referring to all women because not all women have husbands, right? How can an unmarried woman, a single woman, a widow woman who's in church, go home and learn from her husband and ask her husband questions? She cannot, right? So this is not speaking to all women. And yet we have entire denominations and preachers and people giving the misinterpretation that this is a command that all women cannot speak in church. And already just a simple looking at the passage, what it's actually saying in its context. Now, because of what it's actually saying here, it's speaking says, go let these women go ask their husbands. This should have been translated. This word, Gunet, instead of being translated women, it should have been translated wives. And actually, in some translations, it is translated wives because of the context. Again, the King James is not technically wrong here. It's correct translation, just not the best translation for the context. This is why we have to look up the Hebrew and Greek words. So we'll understand this. So really, what he's saying here is, is let your wives keep silence in the churches, for it is not permitted to them to speak, but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also say of the law, and if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home, for it is a shame for wives to speak in the church. So what he's saying here is, and what we discover when we look at the culture, remember going back, we look at history and culture as well. We discover that the men were usually the most educated ones. Women did not get the same education opportunities as men. They were to keep the homes. They were to raise the children. Of course, our culture is very different. Most women don't do that. Most women are in the workplace. But in that culture, women didn't get as much education as men. And what was happening in the church service, while Paul was teaching and preaching, women would not be understanding some of what he was talking about or what he was saying, and these women, these wives, who had husbands, would be speaking out loud and asking
their husbands, what's he talking about? What did he mean by that? We have this problem today. I mean, people speak in church sometimes when they shouldn't, right? And it can be distracting, and you know, to the one doing the teaching and preaching, or bringing forth the doctrine, or word of prophecy, or whatever. So Paul's just saying here, he's not saying a blanket statement, women cannot open their mouths in church. He's dealing with a problem that was caused by the culture and the history of that time. And so what he was saying is, let them, look, stop, stop talking in church and asking your husband questions when you get home asking, right? So he was dealing with a very specific thing between husbands and wives. Now, once we understand, right, the Greek word, once we understand the history and the culture, we understand that now there's no contradiction in the scripture. He wasn't forbidding all women to speak. He wasn't forbidding women to, that women couldn't prophesy in church, or teach in church, or speak. And so now, doesn't that make sense? Why? We can say your sons and daughters will prophesy, right? That's how you correctly interpret scripture. You don't just take something like this out of its context without grammatical, historical, you know, understanding, and just throw it out there as this. And when you've got other scriptures that you've got to compare it to that say women can speak, teach, prophesy, you may all prophesy, you may all bring forth a doctrine of teaching. So again, this has been used incorrectly against women who were called to the ministry and being given gifts by God. And the church has been cheated out of a lot of good ministry because there's a lot, you know, that women have to offer. Let's keep going here. Here's the other passage that's used to try to tell women they can't speak in church. But again, this is Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit writing here. Is he going to contradict what he wrote in 1 Corinthians 14, now that we understand it in its proper context and historical and grammatical context as well? No, but here, let's read it because this is used against women. But remember, he says here, let the women or the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed and then Eve, and Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression, notwithstanding, she shall be saved in childbearing if they
continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. So here he says, again, is this context, does this show us, is he talking to women in general or to wives and their relationship between them and their husbands in the service? Well, guess what? The moment he starts talking about Adam and Eve, Adam and Eve were husband and wife, the first husband and wife. So he's talking about wives being submitted and submissive and in subjection to their husbands. That's the context. So again, woman here is gunay. I suffer not a woman to teach, gunay or to usurp authority. Now here's another thing. Guess what? The word, the Greek word, well, I'll show you in a minute, the Greek word for man and husband in the New Testament is the same word. And how do you know which way it's supposed to be used? Context. So here, if you read this, let the wife learn in silence with all subjection, but I suffer not a wife to teach nor to usurp authority over the husband, her husband, but to be in silence. This is an issue of respect between a husband and a wife. This has nothing to do with a woman called in the ministry anointed by God to prophesy, to teach, to minister in the church. This is simply another instruction about wives being very respectful and not disgracing or, you know, their husbands in public, especially. And it's interesting, this word usurp authority, this phrase here, let's look at this. The phrase usurp authority is only used one time here, othentuo, and it means here the outline of biblical usage, one who with his own hands kills another or himself, one who acts on his own authority autocratic, an absolute master to govern or exercise dominion over. The Strongs goes on to say to act of oneself, dominate, usurp. So what this passage is saying when it says, and I'm going to back up here, let the wife learn in silence with all subjection, but I suffer not a woman to teach or a wife to teach nor to usurp, dominate over her husband, but to be in silence. Now see, this would go along
with what it says in Ephesians 5, when Ephesians 5 says, wives submit to your husband. When it talks about this in 1 Peter 3, wives, your husband, if you, it says in 1 Peter 3, and I didn't have a passage for this, but he says this in 1 Peter 3, that you know, talking about if the wife has a husband that doesn't obey the word, he'll be won not by her constant badgering, but she'll be won by her quiet and meek spirit. So again, we take scripture with scripture context, and we see that this is all about wives and husbands, not ministry in the church. Okay, so let me, let me back up to this. I'm sorry, not that one, but this one right here. Let me go back to this passage right here, to this definition. God does not want to see a woman, a wife, being domineering, acting on her, you know, basically being a Jezebel toward her husband. All right, and this is what this is all about. All right, don't try to, don't try to take authority over it. I've seen, listen, I've seen this. I've seen women even in public, you know, basically look at their husband and go, you idiot, or, you know, why don't you shut up, or, you know, oh, no, no, no. Christian women, that should never be the case, especially in public. You should never show dominance or disgrace or discredit or undermine your husband's place as the spiritual authority over you, and that's what this is all about. Again, it's not about ministry. So let's keep going this morning here. Here's the word, just so you know the word for husband. This is the word, N-R, or N-A-R. I don't know exactly how to say it. Anyway, it means man, husband, fellow, sir, with reference to sex, of a male, of a husband, of a betrothed, or future husband. So, and then it says here, used generically of both, a group of both men and women. So he's saying it can be used as a general term as well, but notice that the word here is translated man 156 times, husband 50 times, sir, six times, fellow one time. So again, we have the issue, man can be husband, or it can be just man, or it can be a reference to a group that's pertaining to both sexes. How do you know how it's being used? Context. All right, so let's keep going here. Let's look at the Romans 16,
because Paul begins to mention some women that are in ministry. All right, doing ministry work. Some actually, it appears to be deacons or pastor, and even one apostle woman. Oh, yep, there's some Baptists that just stop breathing. All right, but I'm gonna tell you, the Baptist denomination has been hypocritical about this for decades and decades and decades, because they would stand and say women can't be pastors, they can't be teachers, but then they let them go teach Sunday school classes, or send them to the mission field, but that's okay, but not in the, not in their glorious churches in America, can they? Oh, what a bunch of hypocrites. The assemblies of God do the same thing. All right, so I'm not picking on the Baptists, but anyway, this is Romans 16, one through eight, and we'll read that. I command unto you, Phoebe, our sisters, Phoebe's a female name, but he's gonna let you know, our sister, right, in the Lord, which is a servant of the church, which is in Centuria, that you receive her in the Lord as become a saint, and that you assist her in whatsoever business, church business he's talking about, church business that she hath need of you, for she hath been a sucker or a helper of many and of myself also. Now, I want to pause right here for just a second. When he says that you receive her in the Lord, what he's saying is she's on a mission, she's on a ministry mission, and don't any of you men give her a hard time because she's a woman? Why do you think he had to say receive her? And why do you think he had to say she is a servant? All right, we'll get to Priscilla and Aquila in a minute, and Junie in a minute, but I want you to realize that this word where it says, I command to you, Phoebe, our sister, which is a servant of the church, and here he was telling men to help her assist her. The word servant here in the Strong's Greek dictionary is diaconos, or diaconos. It means to, in a general sense, it means to run errands, an attendant, a waiter at a table, or in other menial duties, specifically, and especially a Christian teacher and pastor, technically, a deacon or deaconess. Wait a minute, what? A deacon or deaconess, a pastor or a teacher. Yes, it is the same word used for
pastor, teacher, deacon, same word. It talks about a waiter. Everybody thinks that being a pastor or a teacher or a deacon or an elder is some glamorous position. No, it's a lot of work, but that picture there of being a waiter at a table, too, is also meaning that you're working to serve people the spiritual food that they need, right? So Phoebe was working in the ministry, a servant, and do you know that some translations of the Bible say Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Centurion. She was obviously on church business, and Paul told people to assist her, receive her and help her, right? And that meant you men, too. So, wait a minute. I thought women weren't supposed to do anything, but sit in church and be quiet. See, Phoebe was working hard. All right, now let's go back. Let's go back to this. Let's look at this verse here before we get into Phoebe again and get into Romans, the rest of Romans 16, because there's some more people mention, but this verse in Galatians 3.28, I mean, it either means what it says or it doesn't. And what does he say here? There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Now, does it sound like we would all be one in Christ Jesus, neither male nor female, if we said, you know what, women have to sit in church and say nothing. Women can't prophesy, women can't teach, women can't be pastors or deacons, or they can't serve or operate with church business in any way. Does that sound like we're all one in Christ Jesus there? No. No, no, no, no, no, no. Again, it's just sad. It's sad. Really, it's sad that for so many years has been so much bad interpretation of this. But now let's move forward. Let's look at some of the others here mentioned. Now, remember he mentioned Junia. Well, first of all, let's, I want to mention something in verse three here. Verse three, greet Priscilla and Aquila, my helpers in Christ Jesus, who have for my life laid down their own necks, unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles. So it says, likewise, greet the church that is in their house, salute my well beloved Epineidus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ, and greet Mary, who bestowed
much labor on us. Now, we go back up to Priscilla and Aquila. This is very interesting here. You will notice something that you're going to never see. Remember, the Holy Spirit inspired Paul what to write. And he wrote very specifically and he said, greet Priscilla and Aquila. Priscilla is the white, the woman. Aquila is the husband. They're mentioned in other places in the book of Acts as servants and ministers, faithful ministers of the gospel. The fact that Priscilla was mentioned first is unheard of in the culture of that time, to mention the wife before the husband. You look it up too. You look it up in any, you know, history of the time, the culture. I mean, not only did the Jews not do it, but neither did the Greeks or the Romans. It was just, you just didn't do that. That denotes more than likely that she was more prominent in the ministry that they had together than maybe the husband. For instance, I knew a couple, a godly Christian couple, and they were a teen. And she was submissive to her husband and all, and in right relationship with her husband. But her call and her gift was to preach and teach and prophesy. I mean, she was a preacher, a teacher. I mean, that was her gift. Her husband, he'd say, I'm not called to preach and teach, but he loved to play the guitar and lead praise and worship. And they had a ministry together for years and years and years. I went with them. They had a prison ministry, and I went with them often. And he would get up and lead the praise and worship. And, you know, it was great. We'd have a great time in praise and worship. He had a 12-string guitar. He loved that 12-string guitar. And then his wife would get up and preach and teach. And there was nothing out of order about that. Right. Joyce Meyer, again, yeah, I don't agree with a lot of her theology, but she's not out of order being a preacher, a teacher. And her husband's saying, no, I'm not called to do that, but she's got a husband that she's, you know, submitted to. The same thing was Marilyn Hickey for years. You know, Marilyn Hickey had a powerful ministry teaching and preaching, and she went around the world. Her husband was the pastor of a church there somewhere. I think it was in Denver, Colorado, if I remember correctly. But she was, you know, in right relationship with her husband, she was submitted to her husband as a spiritual authority in her life. But, you know, she was a teacher and a preacher and a minister of the gospel and a servant in her church. And there was nothing wrong with that. And seeing just like I catch a lot of flack,
because, you know, I made Nancy an elder and Nancy is really, my wife is gifted and anointed to preach and teach. But also, I mean, she is a servant of this church like you wouldn't believe. And I get really ill when folks start, you know, acting like she shouldn't have the title of elder or pastor or teacher or deacon or whatever. And because I know what the scriptures say. And my wife is not trying to usurp authority. In fact, most of the time I have to ask her to do things. She's not trying to dominate me or anybody else, but she is called and gifted by God. And that shouldn't be stifled and, you know, forbidden and hindered just because we have misinterpreted a couple of passages in scripture. Oh, boy, it's time for a real awakening. Now, granted, let me say, and I'll say this and everybody needs to understand. I have seen women in the ministry who clearly have usurped that position and pushed themselves into that position and are what I call man haters. And, you know, just in their heart, there's in their heart, there's a spirit there that wants to dominate men and that has an attitude, a negative attitude toward men and men in leadership. And when that's there, that's a bad thing. It's not a good thing. OK, because the Lord, I believe the Lord, I believe the Lord from all of us wants to see a humble and submissive spirit to authority, but especially with women because of their nature to be more emotional. They really need a male covering and to be submissive to some male leadership. But it doesn't mean that they can't be in positions of leadership within a church, within a ministry to teach, preach, prophesy, operate in their gift, be a pastor, elder, deacon, prophetess. I mean, we see all of these titles upon women. I mean, there were women. Isaiah's wife, Isaiah referred to his wife as the prophetess. So she was a prophetess. Deborah was a prophetess who led a school of ministry, a college for prophets, and led the armies of Israel against the enemies of Israel because a man wouldn't do it. And God used Deborah in a mighty way. Miriam, Moses's sister, was a prophetess and a leader within Israel. Nancy just sent an email that I just received. She said, on this subject,
my wife just just takes this to Kevin. She said, I looked into your church and your ministry. One thing that I saw was that your wife is called pastor. Where in scripture does the Bible say women have the title of pastor? In 1 Timothy 3, God gives the qualifications for overseers, pastors. He must manage his own household well. God calls the man to be the head of the family and the head of the church. When you list your wife as pastor on your website, that sends a message to the world. See, he confirms women can be pastors. His wife is called pastor. There are more women pastors now than ever before. I have heard it at all why pastors do that, but is it really what God says? Or she doesn't preach and she's not this or that. And I say, good, so why call her pastor for recognition, for high position? I just don't understand why so many churches are putting the word pastor before their wives name. It really breaks my heart because I really believe it sends the wrong message to outsiders. And there is no place in the Bible that qualifies a woman to be called pastor. Paul is clear on the qualifications to be called pastor is a man. Well, here we have a person who is sincere, but sincerely wrong. And that brings me to this next point. Let's look at Junia, who is called an apostle. That's going to be painful for this fellow. Really painful. Let's put that slide up there. This is Romans 16, one through eight. We get down here. A woman sent that, you know, flip back to the camera, please. A woman, you know, I have had in the last that was that's this is the second email in the world. No, this is the that was an email. This was a comment. Two women came on my YouTube channel and in the comments of the Skyfall, our conference trailer, Skyfall 2019 trailer where Nancy's going to be a speaker. And I said, Pastor Nancy Odle. And I did that on purpose just to irritate people. Right. Because I know that they have their bad, their wrong interpretation. So make it a teaching moment. So I have these two women telling me how women should keep silent, not teach. And I'm like, yet they're trying to teach me a man. Shut up. If you think women are not supposed to teach men, you serve authority over men that it's not a husband and wife thing. Why are you trying to teach me a man? What a bunch of hypocrites. Your ignorance will always be exposed. It just blows my mind. A woman said that. Oh, Lord. Oh, man, it's like the globe indoctrination. I mean, come on. That's why I had to do this today, because it just keeps coming up. Right.
But let's get back to the scriptures on this. All right. Because that's what matters. All right. Romans 16. We just I'm going to start from verse one again, and we're going to read on down. I commanded to you, Phoebe, our sister, which is a servant, a deacon or a pastor. The same word used for pastor. So it could be translated deacon, pastor of the church, which is in Centuria, that you receive her and the Lord has become a saint and that she assists her in whatsoever business. She hath need of you or she hath been a soaker or helper of many and of myself also. Greek Priscilla and Aquila, my helpers in Christ Jesus. Priscilla mentioned first again, maybe she had the gift to be the pastor, the teacher, and he was the praise and worship leader. Who knows? Maybe he was the counselor. Maybe he was a prophet. Actually, I think both of them were apostles because they were church planners as well. But we'll move on from that. Let's go on down to verse seven. He says here salute, Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners. Listen to this. Who are of note among the apostles? Who? Grammatically, who is he referring to? Who's the subject of this who? It's not Whoville. It's not anything else. It's Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, my fellow prisoners who, he's including Andronicus and Junia in this sentence together, who are of note among the apostles. Vinnie, they are apostles. Andronicus and Junia are among the apostles, meaning New Testament apostles. Remember, the Bible mentions over 20 apostles in the Bible. It wasn't just the 12, but of course, Paul was an apostle. Barnabas was called an apostle. So Andronicus and Junia were Christians and ministers, and it appears their ministry gift was apostle. And guess what? Apostles are an apostle. For those of you who don't understand the five-fold ministry, apostle has to be everything. An apostle is a teacher, a pastor, an evangelist, a prophet. They fulfill all of that. And then the apostle part of it makes them have, they become church planters and have authority over churches given by God, that authority. So Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, my fellow prisoners who are of note among the apostles, saying that was their ministry gift. So Andronicus and Junia, apostles. So you could put in here pastors, evangelists,
teachers, prophets. Being an apostle, you fulfill all five-fold ministry offices. Let's go and make sure. Junia. Junia, outline of biblical usage. Her name is youthful. And it says here she is a Christian woman at Rome, mentioned by Paul as one of his kinsfolk and fellow prisoners. And it didn't add here an apostle. But it says plainly here that she was female. So Junia, a woman who was ministry gift was that of an apostle. Did we see any of this in modern times? Yes. There was a woman back in the 1920s. Oh, why is her name escaping me? Oh, yes. Amy Simple McPherson. Amy Simple McPherson. This woman was called by God. Now you think about this in the 1920s, right? And then during the Depression, she was a minister. She had a church. Well, she had a ministry and then she had some husbands, you know, leave her. I mean, she went through some difficulties, but this woman had a call of God, really an apostle call upon her life. Amy Simple McPherson. In fact, if you look her up, you'll find out she was the founder of the Foursquare denomination, okay, which is a Pentecostal denomination. One of the largest Pentecostal denomination. In fact, what's his name? Oh, man, why are these people's names just leaving me? Jack Hayford. Jack Hayford, a pastor out in California, song, you know, he's written a number of praise and worship songs, has a ministry school. He's a Foursquare denomination pastor. But Amy Simple McPherson started a church in Los Angeles, California. I believe it was in the 1920s or right after the Depression began in 1929. All I know is she had such a powerful ministry, preaching, teaching, and healing in miracles that she built a church. Think about this. During the Depression, she built a church in Los Angeles. It's still there called the Angeles Temple. She built a church that seated 5,000 people during the Depression. And it was full. They had five services on Sunday. And we're talking about people that were crippled, got up and walked. The deaf, her, the blind would see. They would put the crutches and the wheelchairs and the stuff, hang them on the walls. This woman was a powerhouse. Now, later on in her life
with some issues arise, and I think out of her loneliness and being hurt, there was a little scandal where she ran off. But she was human. But what I'm saying is for many, many, many years, she served the Lord faithfully, diligently, probably out of a lot of pain and loneliness. But God used her. And I'll say this right now. Amy Simple McPherson was an apostle. She was of note among the apostles like Junior. And God used her to plant and start many churches. And it ended up being an entire denomination that God has used. And her four-square gospel is this. I mean, the reason they call it the four-square is because she said, this is your four principal truths. Jesus is our Savior. He's our healer. He's our Baptizer and the Holy Ghost and our soon coming King. And that was her four-square gospel. Jesus, our Savior, who died on the cross and rose from the dead. Jesus, who still heals the sick bodies and works miracles. Jesus, who still baptizes people in the Holy Spirit, the evidence of speaking another tongue. And Jesus, who will return again. So Amy Simple McPherson. Let's continue. There was a couple more women mentioned here who were, it says, labor in the Lord. Now we don't know these. We can't speculate on whether they were in the fivefold ministry and leadership or not, but it's just interesting that Paul recognizes them and points them out in the book of Romans here. He says, salute, trifina and trifosa, who labor in the Lord, suit the beloved Persis, which labored much in the Lord. So if you look up these people, of course, it's a Christian woman, just so you know, it's a Christian woman. Both of them are Christian women who were laboring in the Lord. So really, we got to get off this crazy train here. But let me, let me close with this passage. Let's go to Matthew 28.1 and we're going to close today with this. This one ought to be kind of the icing on the cake, like, you know, enough said here. So Matthew 28.1 through 8 says this, in the end of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre, the tomb where Jesus had been laid after his crucifixion. And behold, there was a great earthquake for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone from the door and sat upon it. And his countenance was like lightning and his raiment, his clothing white as snow. And for fear of him, the keepers did shake and became his dead men. And look at verse five, and the angel answered and said to the women, no men around. Well,
they were scared for their lives hiding out. The angel answered and said, and let me just pause here. You know, this is something too. Let me tell you, a lot of men should, you know, should be stepping up to do things, but they don't. So don't, don't give me a hard time when we say, you know what, if women, if a man won't step up and get the job done and a woman steps up and gets the job done, then so be it. Right? So let's read this. And the angel answered and said to the women, fear, fear, nachi, for I know that you seek Jesus, which was crucified. He is not here, for he has risen. As he said, come and see the place where the Lord lay. Then the angel tells the women, go quickly and tell his disciples that he has risen from the dead. And behold, he goeth before you into Galilee and there shall you see him. Lo, I have told you. And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with great, with fear and great joy and did run and bring his disciples word. Now, the first people that Jesus appeared to, and right after this, he appears to Mary Magdalene, first, a woman. But the angel here gives the message to go proclaim he has risen to his disciples. The first preaching of the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead was women to the apostles, not the apostles to the women. Do you think that the Lord, remember, I believe every, every single bit of this, the Lord was orchestrating down to every minute detail. Do you think he was sending a message to us? Yes, women, women can preach the gospel. They can teach, they can prophesy. In fact, the Lord said, I'm going to make a point to this culture and I'm going to send women with the message from my angel to tell my disciples who were gathered in fear of the Romans that I am risen from the dead. And let me tell you, when those women entered that place where the apostles were gathered, that's a church. I'd say when you got 11 apostles gathered together in a room and you're talking about Jesus, that would constitute two or three being gathered together in his name, wouldn't it? Oh, please, people, please stop. Stop your prejudice against women. They can be pastors, teachers, prophets, evangelists, apostles,
deacons. And like I said before, people want to bring out, oh, it's the husband of one wife. Wait a minute. Okay. If you're going to go down that road, Paul was never married. So does that disqualify Paul because he didn't have a wife? Do you know there's a crazy Baptist denomination that says that if you don't have a wife and kids, you can't be a pastor. Yeah. So I guess Paul was disqualified from all the churches. He pastored and started and planned it as an apostle just because he didn't get married, right? Illegitimate churches. Oh, Lord. No, when you see the term, when you see that instruction there, just because its instruction is male-oriented, doesn't mean it's always talking about, it's always excluding women. Okay. We've made that point. Mankind. Well, see, that's only talking about men. No, men and women. But anyway, I think we covered it thoroughly enough. Look, I want to encourage everybody out there, study your Bible. Just study your Bible. I remember a minister saying that he had a guy, another preacher come up to him saying, you know, these women can't be doing this. They can't be pastoring these churches, teaching this stuff because it was going on a lot, especially back in the early days of the Pentecostal movement. And this pastor just spoke up and said, well, didn't he say your sons and your daughters would prophesy? And the guy freaked out saying, I'm going to have to get back to you on that one because that guy was Baptist and he considered the word prophesying to be preaching. And so how does a woman preach in church and yet she's supposed to be silent? You've got a contradiction here. How can a woman prophesy, identify the church if she can't speak in church? So today I believe that we have biblically, correctly, contextually, historically, culturally, grammatically put this all in its proper context. And if you don't like it, too bad. I don't care. You know, you're probably if you've got this attitude, you're probably in a dead church anyway or probably not attending one at all and think you know everything. So yeah, that's what my wife pointed out. Polygamy was not probably an issue for women. Well said. What Paul was dealing with there, the Holy Spirit threw him and he said the husband of one wife, he was dealing with the issue of polygamy and what even divorce which has been thrown in there. But anyway, let's pray and we're going to close this leadership class eight out today. Women in ministry, I think the question has been answered thoroughly and completely. And like I said, if you don't like it, too bad. Let's pray.
Father in heaven, we thank you Lord for your word, that you Holy Spirit, your Holy Spirit leads us and guides us into all truth. We thank you that we can study, rightly divide the word of truth, that we can truly interpret it and compare scripture with scripture, context, the original languages and bring it together as a cohesive, perfect puzzle when you bring all the pieces together. And Lord, I thank you for women that you've used mightily in the ministry over many centuries. Lord, you've used women as pastors, as teachers, as deaconesses and elders and prophetesses and apostles and training other prophets like Deborah and leading the armies of Israel. So Lord, I ask you to bless women out there to not be discouraged by ignorant people and people who take scripture out of context. But that you always remind them also to keep a very humble and submissive heart and to not disrespect male leadership, whether they're husband or in the church, and that you just use them mightily and give them wisdom. And Lord, we pray this today in Jesus name. Amen. All right, class dismissed.