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If not for God with Mike Zwick Hey this is Mike Zwick with If Not For God with Mike Zwick and I've got my friend Dean Odell here for the two people who haven't heard of Dean Odell out there. He is the guy who actually went to Greg Locke's church and debated him face to face and man I hate to say it and I'm being unbiased here but it wasn't even close. So as we get started off here I just want to say a prayer real quick and Lord I just want to come to you in prayer right now Lord I thank you Jesus that you are King of Kings and Lord of Lords and Lord we know that it says in your word that you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free and today Lord we are just trying to share the truth and we are trying to open the hearts and the minds of God's people to change the world for Jesus Christ and we give you all the praise and all the glory in Jesus name Amen. Amen. All right so Dean you got a church word out of Auburn, Alabama or? Well we're you know Auburn the city of Auburn and the city of Opelika are twin cities they're right next to each other so we first started the church in Auburn but now we meet in Opelika but everybody's calls it the Auburn-Opelika area I mean you don't know when you leave one and go into the other type thing it's kind of like that. Gotcha man and so you grew up in that area is that right? I did I went to Opelika elementary schools junior high high school except for my last two years in high school I moved to Montgomery and went to Jeff Davis a big big high school there and then went to Troy State which is now Troy University down south of us that's where I went to start out with but as you can see yeah we're talking we were talking about beforehand yes I'm a big Auburn fan I grew up going to Auburn football games going all the way back to when Archie Manning was still playing and I was the kid oh yeah I got to see Archie Manning play and Eli Manning play so that was that was pretty cool yeah Wow man and I think I think they're saying Eli might be in the Hall of Fame someday so he's won two Super Bowls but yeah man that's it's pretty cool we went to Appalachian State so I know Troy we actually play you guys in football I think every year and Auburn basketball is having a good year and I think I'm telling you my team Appalachian State we actually beat you guys in basketball earlier this year and that was that was kind of exciting man but today we're not here to talk about football we're not here to talk about we're not here to even to talk about you or or anything else what we're here to talk about is the issue that has been on everyone's minds and hearts lately and people flip out
over it what is the shape of the earth right and good well no I mean yeah I mean people flip out because they actually cannot believe there are people out there that do not believe the NASA government narrative that it's a sphere of 24,901 miles of circumference and and that there's evidence to prove that and of course once you get into the Bible side of it yeah there's the Bible does not teach a spherical spinning flying water ball through an endless vacuum of space it just that's not what the Bible teaches and so it causes quite a stir because of course we've all been indoctrinated with the Copernican heliocentric model and we've been shown stuff from government agencies pictures and images that we believe are true and people are finding out that they're not so true so it's it's a big thing yeah I mean and so you grew up I think you got saved in a very young age right well I got saved yeah when I was about 11 12 years old in that time about around 1979 somewhere in that time period in a little Baptist Church up the road and I was truly born again I mean I had a powerful experience with Jesus I understood that he you know I was a sinner and I needed his blood and his forgiveness and his atoning death and his resurrection and you know I remember going forward in that church and the power of God came on me I was in tears and I felt his presence his love his peace the job you know and but of course I was young and then you know right after that my parents divorced so we stopped going to church and then as I get I got into my teenage years and just hanging out with the wrong people I just kind of gradually got into all that it was very gradual but I got it all that you know started drinking and going to parties and then it's you know drugs and then you know it's just by the time I you know I was into 9th 10th grade I was you know just full-blown drinking all the time partying all the time doing drugs and same thing when I went to the Troy state which is Troy University I joined the Sigma Chi fraternity I was living in the fraternity house party nearly every night and so right between that time period like after my first year there that summer I was going to take some time off and go spend some time on my dad out in Oklahoma and then I just I ended up going over the state line and working in Arkansas this was in 87 and I was 19 and the Lord I started working for a guy who was a born-again Christian and he started talking to me about Jesus and one of the things he said was you can't be a drunkard and go to heaven and you know gave me that from Galatians chapter 5 and it kind of woke me up and God convicted me for about three weeks and you know that time I'd maul in contract and I had just done screen tests and I just had just had landed a part first die-hard movie is supposed to be in that and the Lord spoke to me though when as I was convicted for
about three weeks by the Holy Spirit the Lord said these were first time I really heard God speak to me up in my heart and he said son you can have everything the world has to offer and go to hell or you surrender your life to me and live forever and I thought for a few minutes and I said Lord I'm gonna go with you either I'm going all the way or I'm not going all I will not be a hypocrite and so I gave him my life right there that was June of 1987 and he called me to the ministry shortly after that and that's what I've been doing ever since well and so I just don't let people know we're not here to attack anybody who disagrees with a certain belief we're simply here to present what the facts have cut up hand out and what you've seen yourself and so it's not like in 1987 all of a sudden when you said I'm gonna surrender my life to you the biblical biblical cosmology belief that you have right now it's not like you have that back in 1987 is that right no no I didn't I all through my years you know I've studied the Bible a lot I mean I spent many many many hours studying Hebrew and Greek the original language looking up the words and definitions and teaching and preaching the Bible from going to Africa to the island of Mauritius to the Middle East to prisons and stuff I've preached all over the place and but what would always bother me though when I would be reading the Bible because I believe the Bible is the inspired infallible Word of God so I I believe it to be true from Genesis to Revelation and so when I would read stuff like Joshua 10 when he commanded the Sun and the moon to stand still I would just have this pause and be like I would say to you the Lord I don't understand this I don't understand this this doesn't make sense and of course because you know from being a child you're ingrained with it's a the earth is spinning and that's what causes all this and it's not the Sun moving in a circuit over the earth and so you're like well did Joshua not know what he was talking about or did God make the earth stop spinning I mean what happened so that used to always trouble me but I didn't ever really have my eyes open fully to the true nature of creation and the true shape of the earth until 2015 that was when it happened for me and a good friend of mine who I was kind of discipling and mentoring he lived out in California and he was always asking me questions about stuff and so he sent me a video with a question he said does firm earth ring a bell now I had no idea what he was asking it was the one of the weirdest questions I've ever been asked but he said this video with it so I was like I gotta answer I gotta watch this you know it's about a 25 minute video I gotta watch this video because I didn't know what Sam's asking but because he was a young believer and I was kind of trying to disciple him I thought well I've got to answer his question and so I got to figure out what he's asking so I turned this video on and what had happened though about two months before this is the Holy Spirit spoke to me and said I have something
else to show you and it's big and I'm I was just kind of waiting on you know I couldn't imagine what it was because I'm already controversial preacher that talks about stuff that most of the preachers don't so when I looked watch this video started out with a bunch of NASA fakery which I already didn't trust NASA and I already didn't believe in the moon landing so that wasn't a stretch for me but I begin to realize you know what they really have been lying to us about everything about the ISS about the moon landings about all these kind of stuff and I'm watching this and I knew it was like instinctively I knew from the Holy Spirit where it was going and then it started showing the long-distance photography giving the measurements the eight inches per mile squared where we shouldn't see things at distances we see things then it showed how to to balloon footage and it completely 120,000 feet completely flat horizons 360 degrees around I started seeing that and then of course they showed the Chicago the famous Chicago shot from the beach in Lake Michigan there 60 miles seeing the Chicago skyline it should never be possible and so I started that's when I realized wow then the second half of the videos get started getting into the scriptures of the true nature of creation so here I am like pulling the Bible out pulling out the lexicon starting to relook at everything and I'm like wow not only is there a solid evidence for this like you can it's exactly what the Bible teaches and it finally a lot of things that I had questions about in the scriptures or didn't make sense to me finally made sense like it all came together and I was like it was almost it was it was so powerful that that time in 2015 that it was almost like it saved all over again it was just I like it an awakening for me it was kind of the last big deception that was still on me that I didn't realize was on me and once that lifted off and I just accepted the scriptures and like if somebody would have came to me and said Pastor Dean you don't believe the whole Bible is the word I would have laughed I would have said no way I believed the whole thing from cover to cover but I realized that I had believed man in an area believing NASA and science science theories about creation some of them instead of just believing what God's Word said as a Christian and as a Christian we should just believe what God's Word says that you know that that scripture in Romans let God be true and every man a liar and I realized I had us I had to repent I asked God to forgive me for trusting man over his word and man and and take treatment it's been a wonderful whirlwind ride since then about what God has done and I've never seen more atheists come to Jesus than I have in the last eight years it's just unreal what has happened the people that have gotten saved well and what you just said maybe the start of
the answer to the question but there's two big objections that I get to this and the first one is and this is what I get from a lot of Christians what does it matter what does it matter all right and then just for some for those people that I mean we may not have even said this a minute ago but what we're talking about here is it's also it's called Hebrew cosmology biblical cosmology or aka flat earth but you know flat earth is only part of it it's there's the firmament what it really is and where heaven is and where what the stars are really are what the Sun moon and where the Sun and Moon are and all that it's about the nature of creation overall but yes the shape of the earth being flat yes with contours but flat and and measurably flat actually so yeah a lot of people when you get into this and start talking about it one of the first knee jerk reactions of Christians is what does it matter well again all truths should matter to us we should not accept any lies or deception from Satan anything that that strays from the scriptures we should we should realize and to whenever the devil's doing something like that there's always a purpose he's not he doesn't come up with a lie for no reason and the lie is always to lead people astray if you look at atheists in the world most atheists and agnostics will tell you that the reason they don't believe the Bible is because they cannot believe Genesis one because they believe the science version the heliocentric model and the Big Bang theory they take science's word for it and and so they say well then then the Bible can't be true so they don't trust the Bible and so Satan has used this to turn many people away from Jesus what I what I tell people is let's say you're already a born again Christian you love Jesus you're walking with Jesus and you go what does it matter well it may not matter to you that's fine if it doesn't matter to you but it is a tool and what we call in a in the area of apologetics where you're to give an answer to every man and the reason the hope is in you first Peter 315 that word answer means a defense apologia which it means to give a defense so when someone's deceived in an area we are supposed to give an answer or defense is why the Bible is true what they're believing is wrong whether it be abortion or evolution and now again what we're seeing is the whole heliocentric model is a satanic light is a satanic deception so some people need to hear that to get saved and like I told you earlier I just one example I got a whole chapter of testimonies but one example is Paul our friend Paul from Sweden he grew up an atheist his parents were atheist he went to school with atheists I mean he became a mechanical engineer smart guy brilliant guy and he just he finally he saw he started seeing the truth of his God was really money and he started seeing the truth about you know how money is manipulated and who really controls it and that whole nine yards so he he started looking into
some stuff and he was getting real disappointed because he found out the world didn't work the way he thought it did and then he came across flat earth stuff and he laughed but he said he just had this voice in him and said hey you've looked at some of these other conspiracies that are true why don't you look at this so he he looked at it first from the secular or just the evidence side of it the long-distance photography the high altitude balloon footage and you know laser test and when he saw that that evidence that the earth was truly flat he was like oh my goodness you know we've been lied to about almost everything and then he said I really didn't want to hear from preachers he said but I came across and I can't remember he came across me first or somebody else but he said once I saw that this was in the Bible all along he said the Holy Spirit just hit him and he knew that the Bible is true and if the Bible is true then Jesus was real and Jesus was the way to be saved from sin and he he gave his life to the Lord was powerfully born again and then he contacts me from Sweden and says I can't find a church here it believes the Bible in Sweden he said I'm gonna fly to Atlanta and drive over to your church here in Opelika and I want you to baptize me in water so he came and he's he's actually visited several times yeah he's six foot seven too he almost didn't fit in our Baptist baptism but that's just one story of many I could read from chapter 6 my book atheist after atheist agnostic ancient alien believers people believe the aliens are really our gods and stuff they have once they once they saw the Bible was true and that you could look at true evidence and see that that what the Bible says about creation is true and what science says is not true so many people even scientists I've been contacted by scientists I have P I have a PhD in physics it's a physics professor and a local university that goes to our churches and she is fully on board and she and she actually figured it out before she ever heard about me or heard anything about it she figured it out through physics herself that yeah and so she goes I can't believe I found a church that actually knows the truth about this yeah and you had actually brought up another point as well Dean that somebody had asked me we were driving up to Pennsylvania and he says why he says why would they make all of this up why would they lie about it I mean what would you how would you answer that it's very simple all of Satan's lies are designed to turn us away from scripture from believing the Bible to be true from finding Jesus and following Jesus or even to keep us from things that we need like the baptism the Holy Spirit the power of the Holy Spirit Satan always designs and he will design elaborate lies to turn us away from those things and so like I said more people have been turned away
from believing the Bible once they went to college and started hearing the professor say oh no no no the Genesis one can't be true because we know we know there was a big bang 13 billion years ago and blah blah blah blah blah we can see the cosmic background radiation and you know and so a lot of a lot of young people start believing that I actually haven't that I've looked up article after article where it talks about how many young people leave their Christian faith that they grew up with once they go to college even some have been so distressed over the conflict that they've committed suicide and so it is a serious matter you know their faith has been shaken and as ministers and as you know us older Christians we're supposed to be there with the answers to these questions and sadly you know sadly in the church adopted the world the secular view of creation in a lot of areas instead of just saying no this is what God's Word says and and we're going to stand with that what's beautiful though about this is like I said we've gone to Mobile Bay and I live about four hours from the coast and we drive down to Mobile Bay and do we take Nikon p900s and p1000s which are the strongest zoom cameras you can buy we've taken telescopes and lasers level 5 lasers we've done tests across Mobile Bay and for instance I'll tell you one of them like we if you we go to Fair Hope Alabama and that's on the east side of the bay there's a little beach they're called North Beach Park so if you look due west from there you've got the state docks there Alabama state docks and they have these big blue spools that have the cables for the cranes on them and they sit on the dock now according to Google Earth depending on where the tide is whatever but the dock say is about 10 feet off the water these spools some of them are 12 feet diameter some go up to 16 feet diameter yeah so if you add those two numbers together you get a maximum of 26 feet high right okay so it's exactly 11 miles from the beach on Fair Hope to the state docks and I have all this video and I have pictures of it you know we have I can show everybody this stuff but I zoomed in and I've got my showing where I'm standing and zooming in across the bay okay and I can see the blue spool sitting on the docks at 11 miles well what most people don't understand is I shouldn't be able to see that if not overall it's a sphere because the the the average calculation that everybody accepts and this is direct from my PhD physics friends and then and I have AutoCAD operators and engineers that have gone with me to do these things and geometry teachers have been with us but the math is eight inches per mile squared so if the earth is a sphere twenty four thousand nine hundred one
miles it's curving away from us in every direction it's supposed to curve away at eight inches per mile so not eight inches per mile eight inches per mile squared so for instance ten miles the amount of curvature bulge that should be blocking our view the height of it should be sixty six point six feet which is almost a seven-story building so so what we're looking at at the state docks from Fairhope Alabama is 11 miles so we're past the 10-mile mark so meaning I shouldn't see anything but what is seven stories or higher I should see the top of that when I'm seeing the dock there and seeing the blue spool sitting on the dock which you can confirm by Google Earth you can take Google Earth zoom in and see the blue spool sitting there when you could see that you're not supposed to be able to do that and people have done these tests all over the world at different distances for instance one guy did he did a seven-mile test across a frozen lake and put lights different color lights at different distances and the furthest one he had a red light there and he had his camera sitting one foot off the ice and he could see all each one of those lights on the same plane and according to the math at eight inches per mile squared the that furthest one the seven mile one should been about 30 feet below his vision or his ability to see it and and to you know what they'll try to do is claim refraction and the refraction indexes are not that great refraction only comes into play when you change mediums when you go from air to water there's a giant refraction that happens there but when the air temperature when the surface temperature is lower than the air temperature all the distortion is done away with that's what we make sure we take temperature gauges to the water the air we go but then they'll say what's the superior Mirage well the problem is whenever you see a superior Mirage it's usually a warmer weather you're getting the heat you know displacement of things and a superior Mirage is always inverted on top of itself so you'll have an object here and you'll have it be upside down like this so they come up with all these excuses for these things but you know I've I've done too many tests like we we shot from if you if you point north northwest from Fairhope Alabama at the beach and shoot toward Mobile downtown Mobile there's the government plaza building there and I again I have all this documented and that's 13.6 miles away so it should be around 80 feet of earth curvature balls now that's a 12-story building so meaning we should only see the top four floors maybe even the top three right that's that's the most we should see of that building I can see when do I zoom in with the high zoom camera I can
see the second floor window and the only reason I can't see the first floor is because there's an on ramp to get on I can right there but I can see the on-ramp and the cars getting on the on-ramp now you shouldn't be able to see any of that at all so what I'm saying these are things the Bible says in first Thessalonians 5 to prove all things and hold fast that which is good that word prove means to test so this is something that you can test and this is why atheists are coming to Jesus listen atheists are coming to Jesus because we found a new creative fairy tale myth that's got them to believe and we sprinkled magic little fairy dust on them and all of a sudden they like throw away their unbelief no it's when they see hard evidence like that and they go wow you know they're I'm seeing it you know and then we found you know like the I've had friends of mine we didn't do one personally but a friend of mine and others have done these high-altitude balloon tests with cameras that do not have the fisheye lens on them you know like the GoPro cameras most of those you have to actually have to get cameras that have normal lenses send them up hundred ten hundred fifteen hundred twenty thousand feet you know you get a picture from NASA like from the YouTube spy plane or the SR-71 flying at sixty thousand feet or one of them I think that the spy plane flies at 70,000 the SR-71 was at 89,000 and they'll show the this massive earth curvature picture but yet amateurs send up balloons to 120,000 feet and there's no curve there and they and the camera will do a 360 degree so a lot of the so-called curve we see presented in pictures and videos is produced by these fisheye lenses which they've had since the 60s they've been using these things since the 60s and they've just gotten smaller that's all there is to them now but I've got stuff where NASA was using the fisheye lenses in 69 when when they did the moon landing yeah yeah you know you would actually said I think it was when you did the debate with Greg Locke who leaves that the moon landing is fake right mm-hmm so it seems like he's right there yeah I had hope that he would he would see you know we talked behind the scenes and I tried to really what I was trying to do with him he just went off on his congregation like just just attacked anybody that believed it's basically you're an idiot get out of my church if you if you want to believe this you know or shut up or whatever I mean he was harsh and I and I text him I said look you should have talked to me first because we had become acquaintances before this happened and I and he knew where I stood I had never pushed it on him and I told him I said you should have talked to me first because you didn't have to come at these people like this I said at least you could have known understood where they're coming from and then he got a little haughty with me and a little back-and-forth and I was like look I'm
just having trying to have a civil private conversation with you about this and I said and then and then he got a little more irritated with me and just snotty I've called it and I just said look you know you don't want to go back and forth with me about this because you know I would destroy you in a debate you have no scripture for your belief system and I have tons of it and the next thing I know he doesn't ever say we're going to do a public debate he didn't ask me he didn't do anything that was on Monday on Wednesday he announces it without telling me and I was like okay it's all man and I warned him I said I've been studying research in this for you know eight years I said you're not going to be able to you're not going to be able to refute it looking at it for a month and he couldn't it was it was I was actually embarrassed for him because he had nothing yeah I mean to be and here's the here's the story in case people don't know this debate was at his church in Mount Juliet Tennessee so his church was filled up and when you were speaking and you gave your point people were cheering and clapping and from what Tim Greer modified said he said when Greg Locke would get up to make a point his wife was standing up and clapping about it he got real frustrated when you know if you have to ask for applause you're not getting it and he got up and actually said you know y'all are clapping for me and so but let's see I brought I really brought a probably a four-hour PowerPoint presentation with all the scriptures all the Hebrew and Greek words all my evidence video I even played the video about the nine or ten minute video that came from NASA where Bart Sabrel who had asked for he was doing he told NASA I said I'm doing a documentary moon landing we send me some footage and so some either a whistleblower or an idiot sent him about ten minutes of the Apollo 11 crew clearly in a capsule by balloon in the ether looking down on earth out of a porthole turning the lights off and faking the shot of the earth at a distance insane they were halfway to the moon and they were still only in low earth orbit I mean that is the smoking gun they are they are completely and totally busted he put it in his documentary a funny thing happened on the way to the moon anybody hadn't seen that you need to watch it and I played it I said this is it there's no way this this moon landing happened and you just go through some of the basic stuff but you know it didn't happen so I mean I laid it out I laid out all the scriptures about the earth being spilled and it rest and immovable I laid out I explained what the firmament really is what the Bible teaches it is not what men say it is I gave all the
scriptures to show the actual shape of the earth that actually says it's like clay pressed down under a signet rain or seal rain there's actually a scripture that you have to look up the original three chords but the scripture in Revelation 29 where he says I mean he's talking about after you know the millennial reign and Satan is loosed again and he goes and deceives the nations one more time it says that they went up on the breath of the earth well I was reading that one day and I was like so why did they say breath of the earth because it's could have just said earth why did he use this word breath and so I looked it up well in the Greek it's the word plateaus and I was like plateaus that's where we get our word plateau from meaning a flat right so then I looked it up and the words actually if you go down plateaus you go down to the root words of it all it means spread out flat well a lot of people say well that's just a flat area on the earth no because the word earth there there's several that there's different words for earth and that word they're gay or gay or whatever you want to pronounce it means the whole or entire so it's it's pretty clear that it could be translated they went up on the flat earth of course and then there's there's job 3814 and many of the scriptures in Isaiah that where God says he spread out the earth is the word rocka which means to be out flat to flatten or to press down but that job 3814 says that the earth takes shape like clay under the seal and the word seal there means a signet ring like a king would have to put to press a piece of wax or a piece of clay flat and so you get you know there's no ambiguity about it God even said in Isaiah 40 22 when he said you know that he sits upon the circle of earth a lot of people say see that means it's a sphere no the the scriptures the Hebrew scriptures have two different words one is coughe which is a circle and the other is der which means a ball okay so the word der or ball is never used to describe yours only a circle and then it says that the earth he says in the same verse Isaiah 40 22 he says God sits upon the circle of the earth which that's the dome the firmament and he says it's like a tent for men to dwell it then he says in Psalm 19 that he made a tabernacle or a tent saying word oh hell which is the word in Hebrew for tent so he's telling us the world that he made the earth that he made looks like a tent it's like a piece of clay or wax pressed down black I mean so we don't have to guess at the shape of the earth never ever inscription is the earth and I'm talking about the original Hebrew and Greek is it ever referred to as a sphere or as it's spherical there are translations they decided to put their own bias in there but if you go back to the original word and look at its
definition never does it say it's spirit but it does say it's like a tent now now I don't know about you but I've never seen the tent that was a ball that you're rolling around in it always has you got a flat floor and usually some type of dome surface coming over the top of it right that's that's it that's a tent so if we go by the description that God gave us we knew we do not get a spinning flying you know spherical water ball we just don't get that yeah you know another verse that I saw and I'm actually reading your book right now what is the name of the book like clay under the sea and yeah here it is like clay like clay under the seal because it's that that title is based on the joke 3814 and the other scriptures and Isaiah about it being pressed down like under a seal but yeah and listen folks that want to get it I'm gonna tell you right now Amazon's been blocking people from getting it and they'll say it's out of stock but we have it set up print on demand from our publisher so they should never be out of stock so that's a lie so people either have to go to bookbaby.com or they have to go to us to get it most of time now some people have gotten managed to get it from Amazon like it two months or something but it's ridiculous but but yeah that 479 pages and I go through in detail the scriptures on all of this all the definitions and I go through the proof things that we've done tests we've done and you know I mean just like I present something you know one of my good friends now came to one of our tests across Mobile Bay he's a former lieutenant colonel in the army's retired now he taught at West Point speaks fluent Russian what is the attish to Uzbekistan at one point commanded the European theater and the Asian theater I mean this is a top-notch guy used to go into countries with our special forces because he could speak Russian and stuff so this is a stand-up guy right good friend of mine but he he came to me he said you know what you're preaching what you're talking about true he said he said we have radar systems he was telling me about his ice war radar system that he used in Europe he said it's eight feet tall we can put it on a flat ground and it can pick up a Russian MiG flying 50 feet off the ground over 50 miles away he goes that's when I knew something something's not right here and and then of course I've interviewed a Navy missile instructor who used to teach train our guys how to fire the Sparrow missile and his name was showing and he he told me he said we have optics in the Navy that we can put we can put I can see a ship enemy ship 60 miles away and then he said on his ship they had a laser weapon and lasers direct line-of-sight weapon he said this laser weapon can is and and this is maybe you can look this up look up
Navy laser weapon and they will say in the article from the Defense News or whatever it is they will say that they can shoot down a Russian or Chinese cruise missile over a hundred miles away now cruise missiles fly about 50 to 60 feet off the water because they got to hit a ship they're trying to fly under radar and they're trying to hit ships that are maybe 80 feet hundred feet high off out of the water so they fly at about 50 feet now if you can shoot something down with a laser over a hundred miles away and it's flying 50 feet off the ground right let me explain to you at a hundred miles eight inches per mile squared comes out to six thousand six hundred and sixty six feet that is almost a mile and a half that's either way so there's no laser shooting from a ship doing this to hit a missile flying at Mach 45 not happening and so there's so much evidence out there and of course don't even get me started on the declassified FOIA documents that I have dug up out of the CIA reading room the National Reconnaissance Office I have stuff from the Army Research Laboratory so we have NASA documents that were classified that admit that for instance they admit that mock aircraft flyover quote a non-rotating flat earth that's NASA's words not mine I've got a document from 1961 where two NASA scientists were programming their first computers to track a missile in space using and they programmed the computers to track the missile in space using a flat non-rotating earth equation I got this over and over again I could do I've done two sermons just on the documents both are two hours long and I and I didn't share all of them so it sounds to me like the elites know what's going on yes and they have to operate things in the world the way it really is and so that's why these things were classified until people started making these freedom of information act requests and see I believe is you say well why would they why would they allow the freedom of information act and why would that why would they even let this information out there well I think you know Jesus made this statement and I think most of the rulers of the world are satanic and follow Satan they follow the devil well he's under a rule that Jesus said that that everything done in secret will be shouted from the roof tops everything spoken in secret everything done in secret so we're nearing the end of the age that nearing the second coming of Jesus we're in the end times I believe no doubt so that means everything's got to be uncovered anything that's secret so they were I believe God made them do the freedom of information act this is the rule you have to operate under and they did it these were documents like like from NASA and some of these other the Army's research
laboratory and some of these things that when they were classified if you revealed anything in them you were tried for treason and put in prison okay so I mean then they have these threats on the document that you know punishable by you know prison or death right and so why would why would it be secret to say that we base all of our derivation and definition of linear aircraft model of rigid aircraft flying over a non rotating flight earth why would that be in there here's another one well there's one there's a document about called the damaged asymmetrical aircraft right and I have all this stuff I mean I have all the PDFs and the screenshots and I can still find a lot of them when I went public on some of them disappeared and some of the websites disappeared but I still have the screenshots in the PDFs but this one about damaged asymmetrical aircraft in section one it says that in studying this and observing this and determining you know how things are going to go when an aircraft is damaged this way or that way they said they said that all the equations that they were going that they were putting forth about damaged aircraft and how it reacts in flight they said it is based on all the equations are based on a flat non-rotating earth and then it said that these are the true proper underlying physics they admit it I mean and it like I said we could do that all day long but I tell people all the time I said we don't need those documents anyway because the Bible says it we should just believe it but God has allowed there to be like a way to go out and prove it like I could take anybody I could take any skeptic let's go to Mobile Bank and we'll show you yeah I mean we'll just show you what else you want yeah we took an atheist physics PhD that was a colleague of the PhD that believes it last time and she saw it she's like oh my gosh they asked a question they said you know what in fit in all of our physics training from from the entry-level college to graduate level she said no one has ever even brought up what is the rate of the curvature of the earth what is the equation now you would think that physics PhDs was somehow touched on that it's not at all right no no they never she's and what these two professors told me said that they want to I actually do something like take some of their students and and actually do a test and record and publish their results so I'm hoping that they are they're gonna follow through and do that I hope so too you know and there's some people out there there's a lot of people who when you bring this subject up they get upset about it they get offensive they don't want to talk about it but you know there's a Bible verse
and it's Proverbs 28 I'm sorry Proverbs 18 13 and it says that he that answer at the matter before he hear it it is folly and shame unto him yeah yeah and that's true I mean there's again indoctrination anything that you've been indoctrinated with from a child that's not true now there's some things that we got taught we were children they were true that's fine but if it was not true that's indoctrination if it was not true and you were told it's true then you were lying to you were indoctrinated and having that repeated over and over and over and by people in authority authority figures doing that to you it's hard to break free and for some people it's a kind of an area of pride for them because they're proud about their knowledge either of space or stars or dark energy and dark matter I mean I knew all that stuff I studied all that stuff I was like yeah you know redshift and blue shift and all these again just all this stuff that you pride yourself in knowing but all you've done is you've heard this come from certain individuals and you're just regurgitating the information that you've heard you you can't prove any of this on your own in real science if it's now there are theories and there's theoretical physics and and things of that nature not an astrophysicist that are theoretical physics so what you're basically coming up with is theories about well we think this might be the way it worked or happened or whatever but true science where you can say no this is a fact has to be observable testable and repeatable you have to be able to observe it test it and repeat the test and come out with the same thing and and for a lot of this stuff you can't I mean just for instance the distance of the Sun I mean scientists for years because they started out well six million miles away and it was 12 million miles away now it's 93 million miles away you know I mean it's like you guys are just making up crap you know I mean that's my I think what is a theoretical physicist I said that is a person has a PhD in making up crap that they cannot prove yeah it sounds it sounds smart but it's it's ridiculous and here's the thing Michio Kaku one of our top theoretical astronomical physicists astrophysicists and Neil deGrasse Tyson you ask them questions like that's Neil deGrasse Tyson what is gravity and he'll say we don't know we don't know Michio Kaku said that he said you know if we're off on a theory or a calculation if we're off by a factor of 10 he goes we say that's horrible right because we're talking about 10 zeros right right all right whatever to the tenth power so he's saying but when it comes to cosmology meaning the true nature of the the the universe he said we're off by 120 zeros
he said it's the biggest Mitch mismatch between experiment our true understanding of real science versus theory he said that's ever been in science so they admit they'll have a little chart and they'll go they'll go what we know they'll have 96% of this chart going this is what we don't know 4% what we know and and Neil deGrasse Tyson so we're 96% stupid and then he talks about how there's missing mass meaning because they've got this equation of mass in gravity right the universal laws of gravitation and they gotta say you have I have to certain amount of amount of mass equals a certain amount of gravity well they'll tell you right now he Neil deGrasse Tyson says this he said there's we see far more gravity in what we look and see then we have mass for he said we've known about this he said since the 50s meaning that we used to call it missing mass well I'm gonna tell you why because your whole system doesn't work the heliocentric system does not work I mean that's why he says we don't know what is so what they did was when they can't find this missing mass and then when they discovered that things weren't exactly the way they thought either about just how what the universe is then they came up with this thing this theory of dark matter well there must be mass but it's just invisible we can't see it and you're like and then there's mysterious dark energy and so they start making up these theories and this pile these theories upon theories and people learn these theories and just spit them back out but you can't get prove any of these things and in a laboratory you can't observe and repeat them so it's just again ridiculous and and you know I had a I had an engineer and we've had multiple engineers and PhDs with us on these tests and I had an engineer show me that if you take for instance the equation of Newton's universal law gravitation equation and you take cologne's law of electromagnetism and you look at the equation it's the exact same equation they know it's really electromagnetic it's not really you know and there's we know that that the the charges the electromagnetic charges increase as you go as you go up which is that's why there's a pushing down and so there's a far better scientific explanation for just say gravity what they call gravity as electromagnetic fields and density and buoyancy in a medium so you know and I found out I had a guy I had a guy send me a picture you know we have big NASA headquarters here in Alabama the space sent a book we also have redstone arsenal where they do some work and they have some buildings here and it redstone arsenal there's a NASA building that they use for
research and guess what it's called the buoyancy and density lab not the gravity lab you know so you know when Neil says they ask what gravity is we don't know so you know that's where a lot of people start asking those questions because they get this idea they still have that heliocentric idea well we have to have their gravity has to exist because see we can make it we can drop the phone oh there must be gravity and it's just again it's still a theory and it's a theory they cannot define and it doesn't match their model so so they have an unworking model basically that doesn't really work and they contradict themselves all the time but that's just one example I mean it's it's it's crazy what what really we've accepted from these people yeah there's there's a lot that you know I think there was a book one time and it said I don't have enough faith to be an atheist but it takes a lot of faith to believe in the heliocentric model like you're saying you had mentioned you said it was hard to get hard to get information on this I remember when I first heard about this I would type in flatter on YouTube or I would type in this or that and I it was very very very hard to even find information because they they basically shrugged all of it and you have to be very specific so if people wanted to find you or your website you have a website yeah all of our like videos and articles and stuff said Dean Odell org so my name D E A and O D L E dot org you go to videos and then we have videos by topic and so you got we've got like the sevenfold doctrine of creation series I did and there's the Skyfall conference we do I usually talk about cosmology in one of the sessions in the Skyfall conferences we have one of the best ones I did a I did a documentary called escaping the matrix biblical cosmology 101 that's really good for beginners and this you know then there's a lot of my stuff that I put up you know the sweet time for YouTube and researching this was like 2015 to 2017 that's when actually flat earth and I had a guy that was a he's a search engine IT expert in in Europe who was actually doing work with the European Union because they thought Google was hindered them for doing things so he was studying this for the European Union and we became friends and he's a big flat earth and he showed me he said that flat earth was trending in Google and search engines it was the top thing being searched back in 2015 2016 2017 that's when they had it they had a hearing congressional hearing and they brought Google in and they told it basically a Florida congressman said you're going to shut down this flat earth thing right and they said yeah so
think about this I had a video that was as it was approaching a million views and it had been mirrored many times by other sites so it had hundreds of thousands of views it was called the Bible does say flatter it was only about 12 13 minutes long and it just kind of went through some of these scriptures I went through today that the job 38 and the revelation 20 verse 9 and so I talked about it for about that moment man it was blowing up so if you typed in in Google or in YouTube if you typed in Bible flatter my video would be the first one that popped up on the screen it'd be it was like number one in that topic when they when they clamped down in like the beginning of 2018 and they started the censorship and they started the algorithms to hide this and suppress the flat earth the truth let me tell you you would type in the exact title of you could type in the Bible does say flat earth by Dean Odell and it would be buried in like 12 15 pages of Google then a little while after that you couldn't even find it at all right and then of course 2021 YouTube terminates my channel so but here's the thing if it's silly if this is just a silly foolish belief it's just you know they let they let stuff go out there about Bigfoot and aliens and everything else but all we've got to suppress flat earth and censor it like crazy why well that was the reason I really gave it a look because you know if I had seen a few things on the internet I thought it was Joe but there was a guy named Kyrie Irving a basketball player you remember that oh yeah he came out said he believed in the flatter and then Shaquille O'Neal the basketball player came out and said it the best tennis player in the world recently there was some talk about it and so all of these different people were talking about a rapper B.O.B. came out and said he believed in the flatter and so but when I saw how much they tried to censor it and when I would see a video because you can still go to YouTube but you can type in Dean Odle and you'll see you'll see some stuff there's some other names as well are there any other people who promote promote flatter that you would recommend oh there's a lot out there I mean there's you know there's both Christian and non Christians that do this I mean of course you know there's a guy named Widget Widget gets it you know he's a young man I actually invited him to the debate he was I was gonna bring him up on stage and he's in the science area like dealing with Einstein and relativity and all of this stuff brilliant guy I mean he he debates atheists and people on this all the time so yeah his is great a great channel to go to they have it shut him down which
is amazing of course you know I mean there's flatter Dave he's got a lot of good videos he's not it but he's not a Christian so you get some secular viewpoints in there there's a several I mean there's a few pastors that I know of that are preaching in different places I can't really remember the names right now there's some one guy in Georgia and you know there they're popping up in different places but you know recently the MMA champion Rampage Jackson's has came out as flatter as well so there's some folks that are and I happen to know there's actually some people in some there's some some Hollywood actors that are conservative that have come to this belief but they won't dare say it publicly and and that's it let me tell you that's true about a lot of people there's more people that believe this and have seen the evidence and have come to this realization that we have been deceived about creation but they're afraid they're afraid to take the heat I mean I know pastors that don't tell me I agree with you and then but wouldn't dare ever say they agree with me public or preach it or talk about it or even ask questions they're just too afraid and it takes some guts it takes some strength to stand up for something you know you're going to be ridiculed and attacked and persecuted for and a lot of people just don't want that heat you know but I knew the Lord wanted me to do it and I'm I'm used to taking heat for stuff so I don't care you know yeah that's just the way it is but I look at it this way I've seen so many people come to Jesus because of this truth and it brought them to the gospel to enable them to believe and hear it here that Jesus loved them and died on the cross with them and rose from the dead and you got a call on him to believe that that story is true once they realize that creation story the Bible was true I mean it just you think about it stands reason if you can't believe Genesis 1 why how can you believe Matthew 26 about the crucifixion yeah I can you believe about the resurrection and Christians all times they're gonna push you're gonna push people away because it's just too far out there and you shouldn't talk about it you know and I'm like look man look at what we believe we believe that a virgin conceived that that God became flesh that he lived a sinless life that he wrote that he did miracles he healed the lepers and cast out demons and raised the dead and I said we you know do you think modern most modern scientists believe that no they don't so you know a scientist comes along say it's impossible it's scientifically impossible that Jesus rose from the dead okay so I'm not gonna believe you or believe what I know to be true already you know right so what I'm saying is the world always they already thinks that we're foolish in what we believe we believe in the flood the worldwide flood we believe that Jonah was swallowed by a big fish you know
they mocked that until a dude recently was swallowed by a big fish and lived and was spit out just like Jonah was and so you know we believe things that they that they always thinks ridiculous but let me tell you what's ridiculous what's ridiculous is believing that nothing somehow exploded 13 point whatever billion years ago and created everything in perfect order you know it's just like somebody said we we would have had for that to have happened the way they say we would have to win the lottery just millions of times over like you know yeah and you don't get right right exactly it's one of the most ridiculous stories are attempts at trying to come up with a different story than the Bible about creation but let me tell you who started it it was a Jesuit priest who started the Big Bang Theory a Jesuit priest and so you know a lot of I've heard a lot of people say that Nicholas Copernicus was actually a Christian there's he was he was he was a Jesuit he was on he was a on you actually was paid it's I've covered my book he was paid on staff by the Vatican all of this stuff comes from the Vatican and that's that's what people don't really realize there's people out there say I'm not gonna I'm not gonna believe anything from a religious person and yet they believe the Big Bang it came from a Jesuit priest you know they don't even realize what they're believing and where it came from and this is why the Vatican is part going to be part of the great end-time deception about this alien thing pretending that these fallen angels and demon spirits and the and the Nephilim beings they've created there that they're aliens see that the Vatican's pushing that that narrative really hard and they're going to be part the Vatican's part of deceiving the world and they always have been getting people to worship Mary and pray to Mary and I mean calling her the Queen of Heaven well who was called the Queen of Heaven in the Bible you know I mean this just goes down the list I'm calling her the co-redeemer and co-mediated with Jesus and stuff like that the idolatry the bowing of the statues the kissing of the statues the praying dead saints and all this stuff that the Bible forbids I'm not saying all the people in the Roman Catholic Church are not saved or not ready for heaven because many of them have put their faith in Jesus and not in the Pope but the system and the religious system is corrupt and now you have it for the first time ever in history you've got a Jesuit Pope and he has said some of the craziest anti-bible anti-christ things that you can say and so it's pretty clear we were shown in Revelation 18 you know that's a great whore we were given all the clues it's the city on seven
hills it was a city that was currently raining on the kings of the earth its colors were purple and red which that's the bishops in the cardinals are red the bishops wear purple I mean everything identifies the great whore of mystery Babylon as the Vatican and that the final Pope we were the final Pope is it maybe this guy is it Francis it maybe not but the final Pope I've always believed will be the false prophet that works with a antichrist and that Vatican will join with the morse when the United Nations morse into a full world government they will those two entities will work together to deceive the whole world and and you know Jesus warned he said they will be those who come in my name and deceive me and the Vatican is just that the get-go from the get-go and so a lot of people are talking about aliens right now a lot of people are talking about a lot of stuff that 25 years ago if you would have brought up any of this stuff they would have said you're crazy and so you know it's interesting a lot of these Eastern religion are willing to talk about all this other stuff but a lot of the churches they don't want to touch any of this stuff no they're just afraid I mean look 30 years ago it became it crept into the church to become seeker sensitive or seeker friendly and so that was the model that so many denominations and churches adopted and and all that model is is that we're not going to we're going to give very basic 30-minute 20-minute sermons we're not going to hit anything controversial we're going to give the we're going to give the people the unsaved people what they want and and and then you know Christians are barely going to get anything that they need to grow or learn from the Bible and we've created these make churches that are just basically to get people through the in and out the door so we have can count nickels and noses I mean it's really bad it's just a watered-down Christianity and if there's only there's only two philosophies of ministry you can have as a pastor as a leader you either say we're going to water it down and try not to be offensive and not say anything that might upset somebody and try to keep people that way or we're going to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth and Genesis the revelation and let the chips fall where they may if they get offended they get offended Jesus was not afraid to offend people the truth so you can't be both of those things you have to be one of the other and so it's not just the flat earth biblical cosmology truth that they run away from but it's the truth about the Nephilim which is connected to the alien situations they don't want to talk about the Giants they don't want to talk about they don't most of them don't talk about demons and casting out demons they want to just run away from that like it doesn't happen anymore so you know I mean I saw that come in it crept in late 80s early 90s into the churches and I even had some of them
try to push it on me and you know you need to go to this class and you need to learn this and so I've heard all the teaching I went to the Regent University training on church growth and I'd sit there just grieve the whole three days I was there just like this is so disturbing because it's really a class on how to manipulate people into becoming church and attending church instead of what our goal should be is to get them saved to get them to repent of sin and to get them to become true disciples of Jesus Christ that are willing to take up their cross and follow him and deny themselves and and so you know we hard to hear any of that preaching anymore I mean it's a rare thing so but that's what I'm saying you throw something as controversial as flat earth into that equation and they like no way you know we're not even going to talk about demons so it's sad it's that but many Christians I have to say I get contacted all the time so many Christians are dissatisfied in these lukewarm seeker friendly seeker sensitive churches they're leaving them by the droves and and and then having a hard time finding the church in their area that will preach the you know as Paul said the whole council of God's Word from Genesis to Revelation so that's right people are hungry we have people that we have even though our church we're small church we're less than a hundred people just a little less than that and but we have thousands and I'm not even with YouTube shutting us down we have thousands that listen to us every every week thousands upon thousands I mean probably three four thousand on on Facebook several thousand that Europe on the Europe Channel I mean so God's really you know the message is getting out there and then people come visit us and people always telling us oh we want to move here so we can go to church here and I tell them don't do it unless you know God's telling you to do yeah yeah yeah I never say yeah come on because uh but it's sad because the big most of the emails I get or do you know a church in my area that that preaches the whole truth anymore from Genesis to Revelation that they don't even talk about in times Bible prophecy they're churches that will not touch that with a ten-foot pole and you're like and people that's how can I started getting like a bigger following online is because I would talk about Bible prophecy in depth you know and so yeah it's just we live in an interesting kind of watered-down lukewarm time where people are scared so many Christians are scared to be controversial yeah absolutely but not you so Dean I thank you for coming on today and you kind of opened a few cans of worms with the the nephilim and we still talked a little about about Freemasonry so maybe we could get you
back on another call and discuss some of that but I really enjoyed having you on if you got the book go ahead and show it to the audience so they can pick it up like clay like clay under the seal go to bookbaby.com especially for international order if it's bookbaby.com or go to Deanodal org to order it you can risk it you can try to order from Amazon it might work it might not I don't know but you can get it from us and I say this if anybody can't afford it and they're going through a difficult time and they send me a mailing address I'll send them one because that's what I do you can't beat that brother yeah so thanks for everything you do man and we hope to talk to you soon right thanks for having me brother